Debating the Debate

Leave it to Nomad and myself to debate the debate! We've posted this here for your reading pleasure. Hopefully, our readers can take heart in Nomad's unbounded optimism ;-) Seriously though, he makes some good points that are worth sharing but he hasn't convinced me just yet. As a final rebutal however, I'll point out that I will most certainly be voting in November, there is almost nothing that will discourage me enough to think that Kerry is a better option.


Ward,

I just read your posting to Mod-Blog about the debate where you savage Bush for appearing "small" and "in his own world." (You do realize every time you contradict me, an angel loses its wings, right? ;-) I must say I find your comments pretty funny. No offense, but you come across sounding like you did not see Bush in his debates with Gore. He is the same guy here, as he was in those debates, as he was in his press conferences the last 4 years. That is the thing with GWB, he is the same guy no matter where you see him. No morphing, no transformations, and no wavering. Compare that to JK, who is a different man every time the public sees him.

This is not to say that GWB came across as a paragon of debating skill, or someone who will be emulated in future presidential debates. But he wasn't last time around, either. He just stayed on message, and let Gore flap in the breeze of his own changeability. Anyone who came to the debate last night expecting a knock-out punch from GWB (and from what I heard on FoxNews Radio, all of them DID) was simply no paying attention to history. Bush does not win debates by being the best guy there. He does it by making his points directly to the people, and getting across the message of where he stands.

I dunno. Sorry if this comes across rough. It isn't intended to be. But I find it funny that the liberals all agree Bush did really well, and many conservatives (and Pro-Bushies) think he lost big. Fact is, Bush was Bush. And that is not a bad thing. Ultimately, the election is not coming down to "Do I believe in the things JK believes in or do I believe in the things GWB believes in?" It is coming down to, "Do I think GWB deserves to keep his job, or do I think he deserves to be fired?"

If JK wins November 2, it is not that he won. It is that Bush got fired. And as of now, I do not think the American people have found a good reason to fire Bush.

My thoughts. Feel free to keep between us, or to post to Mod-Blog somewhere.

- Nomad

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as to the debate, I would not argue that bush was different, just that he
seemed small compared to Kerry last night. And that's just not the way
that bush should look. He seemed less comfortable and I felt he wasn't
willing to go on the offensive...He spent too much time on the defense and
it didn't help him look as presidential. I think that compared to bush,
gore was obviously horrible. But I think Kerry at least seemed calm and
so on. Granted, he gave nothing but I just felt like bush should have
come out with a lot more power and he just seemed muted to me. I don't
know, that's just how I saw it. I wasn't looking for the knock-out punch
but I was looking for a few solid hits on a lame democratic opponent.

I guess it just reflects my discouragement with bush in general right now.
I feel like all we hear are negative things from Iraq and I believe that
things aren't as bad as they might be portrayed but bush and his people
won't come out and really fight the battle. It's just the same tired
"it's a tough road but we're getting there." I want to see some evidence
from the administration that can back up what they're saying. I feel they
have failed to do that.


By His
Grace
Ward

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[[as to the debate, I would not argue that bush was different, just that he
seemed small compared to Kerry last night.]]

Sigh. This is what I don’t get from not just you, but many conservatives this morning. What did you expect? He IS shorter than Kerry. About 6 inches, I think. And Kerry is quite practiced in making himself seem more important than he is. While Bush's whole philosophy of life is to be exactly what he seems to be. No pretense, no artificiality. That is his strength.

[[...He spent too much time on the defense and it didn't help him look as presidential. But I think Kerry at least seemed calm and so on. Granted, he gave nothing but I just felt like bush should have come out with a lot more power and he just seemed muted to me. I was looking for a few solid hits on a lame democratic opponent. ]]

I can see why you feel this way. But unfortunately, some of this is just how it is to be an incumbent. And it is how Clinton was against Dole, and how Reagan was against that guy who ran against him. Oh, yeah. Mondale. The incumbent is always on the defensive, because he actually has a record. Did you notice how EVERY TIME John Kerry got specific, he basically said I'll do exactly what Bush has done, but I'll do it BETTER. I doubt anyone missed that he really has no alternative to offer, other than a taller man in the oval office.

Anyway, I think your point was correct for the first 5 to 10 minutes. After that, I felt Bush found his stride and was solid and passionate. Kerry seemed solid, but lacking in any passion on any point. He debated like a debate student, which is what he was.

[[I guess it just reflects my discouragement with bush in general right now. I feel like all we hear are negative things from Iraq and I believe that things aren't as bad as they might be portrayed but bush and his people won't come out and really fight the battle]]

And I think that comment is the most telling thing in your whole e-mail. It really is NOT that you expected Bush to be different than he was last night. It is NOT that you feel he lost the debate. It is that you were hoping for something NEW and DIFFERENT from the campaign, because of all of the other stuff going on around us. You want a Rudy Giuliani-style campaign now, not a George W Bush campaign. From one point of view, you are bored. From another, you are angry that Iraq is not cast in the right light.

And I think that is the difference in our reactions. For me, I saw EXACTLY what I expected to see last night. GWB staying the course, holding strong to his strategy, and saying what he feels is right. JK tacking into the wind yet again, morphing from a peacenik back into a taller clone of GWB with better hair and programming in proper debate style. Neither was stellar, neither had a great line for the night. But both actually presented their points of view, such as they are.

It will be interesting to see what effect this debate has. From my reading of you, and many voters, I think that it will have NO effect on the Left or the Undecided Voters. But it may have caused some of the Bush supporters to have less reason to get out of the house on November 2. And that may be as important as any other effect. But I doubt we'll see that in the polls.

- Nomad